we just want you to buy and maintain the office, hire the personnel, and pay for the counseling that leads to the abortion with…
1) I’ve seen the statistics. I think it’s funny though that you people think that holding a differing opinion means having a lack of education. I wasn’t making a universal statement and saying all women that get abortions are sluts. I was being sarcastic and condescending because I felt like it. And for your “slut shaming” link, I will “slut shame” any day and I really don’t care if it hurts your feelings. I’d “slut shame” a guy. If you sleep with a bunch of people just because, then you are a slut. That doesn’t mean you’re less of a person, it just means you make stupid decisions and the label “slut” fits. I’d say the smart thing to do wouldn’t be to send me a link to a feminist website when I couldn’t give two shits about feminism. Also, I was not making a statement about rape victims, so I ignored your entire paragraph on it. I’d say that whole paragraph fits into non sequitur and straw man fallacies. But, in case you were wondering, I still don’t think rape victims should have abortions. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t care whose fault it is.
2) I realize contraceptives fail. This still does not change my opinion.
3) I also understand that most women that have abortions already have children. It’s still wrong, and if a significant other (the man) encourages an abortion then he is a shithead. and a sorry excuse for a husband/boyfriend/father.
On your argument for abortions being needed, I didn’t read this. I don’t care. If a baby endangers the mother’s life, or has a defect that will not allow it to live after birth, then I understand the reason for abortion, but these circumstances are very rare and not even worth mentioning unless you’re a feminist that wants to use it to make her case look better.
Financial reasons, didn’t read this either. I’m against universal health care, as I said. It is not my job to pay for your accident, or rape baby, or whatever else. It’s also not my job to pay you anything if you’re poor and you have a child. My statement was from a moral perspective, it was not a legal statement. Your assumption that we either pay for abortions or pay for the kids that result in not having an abortion is a false dichotomy. There is the option of people taking responsibility of their own lives and to stop relying on the government at all.
Your statement on war: What the hell is wrong with you people? You’re so consumed by playing the victim that you aren’t standing up for a real issue like the government stealing your money for a war you don’t support. You say you’re trying to change shit. You aren’t changing anything. You’re sitting by passively as the world turns to shit and all you can think about is, “oh my God, that joke was so sexist!” Newsflash: abortion’s legal, there’s no reason for you to care about what I say because my opinion hasn’t changed that. You are wasting valuable time you could be using to protest war, or taxes that wrongfully go elsewhere. Instead you choose to sit on your entitled asses and bitch at a girl you don’t know or have any affect on over the internet.
Pacemakers: I read the first sentence and that’s all I needed to know of your pathetic view of life. You will not die if you don’t have an abortion. People that need pacemakers will die for sure if they don’t have a pacemaker. These two things do not even compare. It’s horrible that I even have to explain this. But let’s be clear, still not my job to pay taxes for them.
I am pro-life. People would have cheaper health care if the government would stay out of people’s lives. Why are you blaming one citizen for all of the problems that the government and insurance companies inflict on sick people? I’ll let you in on a little secret: the government enforcing universal health care will make health care even worse than it is today. So yes, I am pro-life in every sense because I’m anti-government. That whole paragraph is an ad hominem, another false dichotomy, and another straw man.
Seriously girls, maybe you should “educate yourself” (I’ve noticed that’s your favorite condescending statement) on logical fallacies. I find it sad that so many of you are just so excited for this sorry excuse for an answer and fail to see how incredibly ignorant it actually is. I would also say to all of you saying “shut the fuck up you fucking pro-lifers” or anything remotely close to that sound ridiculously ignorant. Maybe you would have a better reputation as a feminist if you weren’t so emotional.
But I’m sure none of you will reblog this “smack-down” . I realize you have your illusion of knowledge to keep spreading. But if you do decide to answer, thanks, I’m liking the new followers.
Oh look, took you long enough to answer to me.
“You people”, nice generalization. I wasn’t aware my opinion spoke for an entire group.
“I will “slut shame” any day and I really don’t care if it hurts your feelings. I’d “slut shame” a guy. If you sleep with a bunch of people just because, then you are a slut. That doesn’t mean you’re less of a person, it just means you make stupid decisions and the label “slut” fits.” How is someone’s sexual life a “stupid decision”. If it’s consensual and safe, then how is it stupid? I don’t understand how you’re able to judge that. “Just because” it feels it, it makes the people involved feel good, because they like eachother why isn’t that important? Sex has more biological functions than just making babies. In fact, sex for just reproduction is not only EXTREMELY unnatural, and is dangerous to our species. Just because other’s sex lives are not to your standards doesn’t make their decisions stupid.
“I still don’t think rape victims should have abortions. Two wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t care whose fault it is.” It’s great that you feel this way because odds are you’ve never been raped. Rape happens at all ages: a ten-year old girl has the potential to get pregnant, there is even a case where a five-year old had a child. Why should a child- yes, they are children- be forced to have a child of their own because it doesn’t agree with your views? I was sexually assaulted when I was around fourteen, I was in no position to be pregnant and raise a child. Your sympathy for your fellow humans brings me to tears </sarcasm>
“I’d say the smart thing to do wouldn’t be to send me a link to a feminist website when I couldn’t give two shits about feminism.” You don’t care about human rights? Could’ve guessed that.
“Also, I was not making a statement about rape victims, so I ignored your entire paragraph on it.” You said, and I quote, “When some girl falls off the barstool drunk with her legs open”. If a person is drunk THEY CANNOT CONSENT TO SEX. If you cannot consent to sex IT IS RAPE. So, yes, you were making a statement about rape victims, whether you meant it to be or not.
“If a baby endangers the mother’s life, or has a defect that will not allow it to live after birth, then I understand the reason for abortion, but these circumstances are very rare and not even worth mentioning unless you’re a feminist that wants to use it to make her case look better.” Way to ignore a minority, you sure are a classy person. EVERY CASE IS WORTH MENTIONING, when you ignore a minority case you’re ignoring PEOPLE. Opinions on abortion affect everyone, even the minority.
“There is the option of people taking responsibility of their own lives and to stop relying on the government at all.” This, this right here, this comes from a point of extreme privilege. I can tell right now you have never known what it’s like to be poor, and I’m willing to take a guess that you blame poor people for being poor. First let me say having an abortion is taking responsibility, it’s recognizing you cannot afford a healthy pregnancy or a child. Second not having enough money is not a failure of responsibility. I’m going to use myself as an example. I’ve been working since I was thirteen-years old- my mother had her own business and I worked for that- when that business went under I worked for my father and when he sold his business I nannied AND got a “real” job at a Grocery store. I was working two jobs AND going to highschool/college; I was union at the Grocery store so I had health insurance. When I was RECRUITED (they sought me out) for the opportunity of a life time- an internship with a company I had admired since I was four- I went for it, my manager promising to hold my spot at the Grocery store when I returned. The chain I worked for filed for bankruptcy and now has a hiring freeze. I now have no job and no health care, how is this a lack of responsibility? How is the thousands of Americans that have been laid without cause because their company needed to downsize? Being poor and unable to take care of yourself or a child financially is not a lack of responsibility, and I honestly fear you will never be able to understand this. You want people to have babies instead of going through with their fiscally responsible decisions of aborting them? Help them. This isn’t a false dichotomy, this is the honest to goodness truth.
“Your statement on war: What the hell is wrong with you people? You’re so consumed by playing the victim that you aren’t standing up for a real issue like the government stealing your money for a war you don’t support.” Again, “you people”, I adore how you generalize an entire movement from my one post and I love how you make assumptions about me personally. You assume that I don’t take any other action then commenting online. You know NOTHING of my life or my activism history, or what I have or haven’t done.
“Newsflash: abortion’s legal, there’s no reason for you to care about what I say because my opinion hasn’t changed that.” News flash, the government’s trying to change that. They make it harder for women to obtain safe, legal abortions. There is reason to care about your opinions because they can harm women, your vote and voice as to what goes on is important.
” Instead you choose to sit on your entitled asses and bitch at a girl you don’t know or have any affect on over the internet.” Pot calling the kettle black, dear. I’m also not entitled, thank you for assuming again. I come from a now lower middle class Hispanic family, everything I own I’ve had to work extremely hard for. On a side note, I respected you enough to keep my original response to you free of foul language and generalize the whole pro-life movement based on your response, yet you didn’t think twice to allow me the same courtesy.
“Why are you blaming one citizen for all of the problems that the government and insurance companies inflict on sick people?” Now where did I blame you? Where? Pick out the sentence where I said it was your fault? I was saying that the views you had were definitely conflicting: you don’t want universal health care- which, yes, definitely will help save sick people’s lives- but you’re “pro-life”- assumption is that you care about living humans.
“I’ll let you in on a little secret: the government enforcing universal health care will make health care even worse than it is today.” So the rest of the world is just wrong?
Listen dear, I know being pro-life it’s just your opinion but that doesn’t make it right.
You like to use the terms straw man and false dichotomy to try and take apart my arguments without really bothering to argue them, you admit to not reading half of it but consider yourself well educated. You instead, make broad generalizations about the pro-choice and feminist movements, about me personally, and play the victim card (i.e. BAWWW YOU’RE BLAMING ME FOR HEALTH CARE AND PICKING ON MY OPINION BAWWW). This is called derailing, and you seem to be very good at it.
I’ve read a lot of your journal concerning this particular topic and your argument seems to be based opinion that life begins at conception, which you call scientific. First off, just google the term “life begins at conception”, I’ll even do it for you. Do you notice something super special awesome? Nearly all the results are religious based! I scrolled do about ten, fifteen pages and found it very hard to find an unbiased source that agreed with this statement. Couple other things wrong with this: the sperm and ovum (egg) cell are technically alive before ever meeting; it completely sites those who ejaculate as those who make “life” that the egg just sits there passively waiting to be fertilized (this quote better explains it), which just isn’t true to begin with; scientifically, no, life did not begin at conception- it began billions of years ago and is reconfigured upon conception (this is according to science); and the argument for pro-choice isn’t that human life isn’t there, it’s that a human person is not there.
Here’s a couple fun facts about human persons versus human tissue- a fetus in particular:
- Human tissue can be frozen and reused, conceived eggs are not exempt from this, where as human persons cannot.
- If human tissue is removed from a human person, it perishes without great harm to the human person. (i.e. If I had to remove my foot, my foot would die, while I would be able to continue living only footless)
- A human person is autonomous, they can live while another dies, even if it’s their biological mother. A fetus cannot.
- A human person has is completely aware, even newborns and premature babies are aware of their surroundings. A fetus is not.
Even if a fetus was a person, even if you believed this in your heart of hearts, no person as the right to another person’s body without their consent. If I were dieing, right now, of kidney failure and needed a kidney transplant in order to live I could not take another person’s kidney, not even my mother. I donate blood on a regular basis, DONATE, if someone needed a blood transfusion and I was an exact match they could not take it without my consent. A fetus, as a person, would have no right to it’s mother’s body if she does not consent.
And before you say it, and I have a feeling you will, consenting to sex is not consenting to a pregnancy. Knowing something COULD happen as a result of you doing that action does not mean you are consenting to that act. I know I COULD get into a car accident when I go out and drive, this doesn’t mean I’m consenting to it; smokers are very much aware that they run the risk of lung cancer, this does not mean they are consenting to getting the disease; those who contract sexually transmitted diseases are treated, even though they were very much aware this was a consequence of having sex.
Personhood at conception also brings up a array of legal, and moral problems. I am going to use a few straw men here in order to illustrate a point of just how ridiculous person hood at conception is.
- Is freezing all these people against their will a crime? We don’t know they want to be frozen.
- If these frozen egg people are kept in cryo for eighteen years, should they be allowed to vote? They’re technically eighteen-years old.
- Millions of sexually active women naturally flush out fertilized eggs with their monthly period. Isn’t it illegal to dispose of a human body in the waist bin by the toilet? Aren’t all these fertilized egg people in need of a proper burial?
- The government would not legally be able to deport immigrants if they’re pregnant with a “person” conceived on American soil.
- Social security numbers would have to be distributed to all embryos.
- All embryos must be accounted for in the census.
- Citizens would be able to claim their embryos on their tax returns.
I know those were all straw men dear but those are things you have to take into account when considering for person hood at conception.
One last thing, do me a favour and don’t reply unless you plan on reading all of my argument like I did yours. It’s just a common courtesy and the adult thing to do. Just sayin’.
Reblogging for the great discussion.